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From	Message
sebastianmeyer 4/28/2008 05:42:28 [ report abuse ]	Subject: New Feature: Database Message: Hello, Today I read about the new feature. Unfortunately, I can't access the gameknot database anymore. It says only "Loading..." Does anyone else has these kind of problems? I am running Opera 9.27 on Win XP. Java is not installed what may have caused the problem. Is there a possibility to reinstate the old database feature?
heinzkat 4/28/2008 05:44:06 [ report abuse ]	It's just not working in Opera Message: Send feedback via gameknot.com - probably it'll be fixed soon...
ironbutterfly 4/28/2008 06:19:32 [ report abuse ]	missing ECO classification? Message: I miss the opening classifications that were part of the old db - they helped me in looking further for material in books and magazines. Anyone else miss them??
heinzkat 4/28/2008 06:27:48 [ report abuse ]	They still have these: Message: gameknot.com But not linked anymore. Have sent feedback about this already...
sebastianmeyer 4/28/2008 22:53:22 [ report abuse ]	Feature works now in Opera Message: The game database works now. Thx.
heinzkat 4/30/2008 15:39:52 [ report abuse ]	ECO classification/GameKnot support Message: "We will be bringing back most, if not all of the features that were available with the old Game Database page in the coming weeks." I guess the ECO classification is one of the most prominent of those, since most other features have already been implemented. No worries!
ironbutterfly 4/30/2008 16:14:38 [ report abuse ]	ECO Message: Hope you're right, heinzkat!
heinzkat 5/01/2008 04:59:44 [ report abuse ]	Message: Well, it was in response to a message in which I included the ECO too. The first strange thing with the 'World' DB, after the moves 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Bb5+ One game is found with continuation 3. ... Qd7! Qd7 1-0 Fressinet L (2654) vs. Van Wely L (2679) I wonder what the whereabouts of that game are!?
lighttotheright 5/01/2008 07:57:54 [ report abuse ]	3. ... Qd7 Message: How is that a good move? It seems to me that it simply drops the Queen. It must be a typo...we are talking about a Grandmaster. What gives?
lighttotheright 5/01/2008 08:01:15 [ report abuse ]	3. ... Qd7 Message: How is that a good move? It seems to me that it simply drops the Queen. It must be a typo...we are talking about a Grandmaster. What gives?
tim_b 5/01/2008 09:34:11 [ report abuse ]	Message: Maybe it was a moment of absent-mindedness and he intended to use the bishop? I once castled with my Queen because I was away with the fairies. I spent the rest of the day with a paper bag over my head.
jstevens1 5/02/2008 00:23:20 [ report abuse ]	Opening Names Message: I have just noticed that the name of the opening and it's group no. e.g. A00 played in the database is named. You will have to look underneath the reset/back/back to games options to see it. Joanne
kreifi 5/04/2008 01:15:56 [ report abuse ]	Message: New database is very cool. But I have one problem. After moves 1. d4 d5 2. c4 I have 33 games in move gxd but when I click it it shows only 4 games. I looked if this is just one another way to get more paying members but didn't find anything. Do I have to be paying member to get all out of my databases or is this bug?
heinzkat 5/04/2008 05:33:38 [ report abuse ]	kreifi Message: The personal database of non-paying members is limited to the first five moves, if I remember correctly. This might explain it?! But indeed, the numbers can fluctuate a lot. I think I have also found some sort of bug too...
heinzkat 5/04/2008 05:42:16 [ report abuse ]	"Chess openings" Message: gameknot.com
rallyvincent 5/04/2008 09:02:59 [ report abuse ]	@heinzkat Message: The personal DB used to be limited to the first 2 moves for non-paying members. Right now though, it isn't (anymore?). Still, not all the games are accessable, I have numbers like four out of thirteen.
kreifi 5/04/2008 20:37:42 [ report abuse ]	oh yes Message: Noticed that text today with Firefox. With Opera I didn't see it. Maybe I have to become paying member.
usethepawn 5/05/2008 05:41:42 [ report abuse ]	I love it Message: Fantastic update to this feature!
heinzkat 5/06/2008 00:26:55 [ report abuse ]	Message: Game DB is now linked to the annotated games via the "chess opening"/ECO link at the bottom of the board... does everybody still get it? :-)
heinzkat 5/14/2008 04:46:48 [ report abuse ]	... Message: World games can be played out now in an 'analyze the board' screen!
garos 5/15/2008 05:26:38 [ report abuse ]	Feedback on this one please! Message: game This game is in the World database, and I need someone to explain what is going on. It is waaay too deep for me. On move 9 black appears to leave his queen hanging, which white ignores, then on move 11 he puts it in danger again. Unfortunately that's as far as it goes and game is drawn, but whether after that move I don't know. I am interested to know what others think, because I can't see any ulterior motives anywhere. Which is probably why I'm not playing above 2000:)
garos 5/15/2008 05:35:41 [ report abuse ]	sorrry Message: the link doesn't work. You can find it by going into one of your games, then accessing the world database, then click start and enter these moves: 1.e4, e5 2.Nf3, then Ne7 which takes you to the game which is Jadanowski v Toczek. heinzkat could probably tell you an easier way to do it. garos
tim_b 5/15/2008 05:58:22 [ report abuse ]	garos Message: I think you've got a point; perhaps both players were rip-roaring drunk.
heinzkat 5/15/2008 08:28:38 [ report abuse ]	Message: Garos, I noticed that; the numbers of the games in the World database do not correspond to any bd=number (although they seem to be overlapping with GK games, sometimes)
heinzkat 5/15/2008 08:39:56 [ report abuse ]	Above Message: I noticed Fressinet - Van Wely, after 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Bb5+ Qd7!?. In the title it says 'GameKnot: chess board #1966047' but game, is, as you can see, a game that was played on GameKnot. Notations can get messed up and only one little error can result in very strange games.
mwc1945 5/15/2008 08:43:54 [ report abuse ]	Message: I would not trust the world database if you are planning to use it for help with your analysis. This particular game is rapid play and there are several other blitz games included. I can't see the reason for including games like this in a supposedly helpful database.
heinzkat 5/15/2008 08:56:06 [ report abuse ]	Correct Message: Perhaps this rapid game was recorded with a DGT board - sometimes a move isn't submitted properly. I doubt this is the real game that happened between a 2072 and 2372 rated. Same goes for Fressinet - Van Wely (note the 'Event' part of the PGNs): [Event "Warsaw AIG Life rapid"] [Site "Warsaw"] [Date "2005.12.17"] [Round "9"] [White "Jadanowski,Lukasz"] [Black "Toczek,Grzegorz"] [Result "1/2"] [Eco "C40"] 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Ne7 3.d4 d5 4.exd5 Nxd5 5.Bc4 Be7 6.0-0 0-0 7.Bxd5 Qxd5 8.Bf4 c6 9.Nc3 Be6 10.Qe1 Nd7 11.Ng5 Qe4 1/2 [Event "EU-ch Blitz"] [Site "Ajaccio"] [Date "2007.10.25"] [Round "17"] [White "Fressinet,Laurent"] [Black "Van Wely,Loek"] [Result "1-0"] [Eco "B50"] 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+ Qd7 4.0-0 Nf6 5.Qe2 Nc6 6.Rd1 e6 7.d4 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Be7 9.c4 0-0 10.Nc3 a6 11.b3 Qc7 12.Bb2 Rd8 13.Rac1 Qa5 14.f4 Nh5 15.Kh1 Nf6 16.g3 Kf8 17.Kg2 Nd7 18.Kf3 Qa3 19.Bxa3 Ncb8 20.Rd3 Nc6 21.Bxa6 bxa6 22.Rcd1 a5 23.Kf2 Nxd4 24.e5 Bf6 25.Ne4 Be7 26.Bb2 dxe5 27.fxe5 Ke8 28.Nd6+ Bxd6 29.exd6 Nc6 30.Bc3 h5 31.Rf3 f5 32.Rdd3 Nb4 33.h3 Nc6 34.Bd2 Nb4 35.Be3 Nc6 36.Bf4 e5 37.Bxe5 Nb4 38.a3 Nc2 39.Rxf5 Nd4 1-0 (source chesslive.de)
prospero 5/20/2008 19:54:46 [ report abuse ]	Eliminate current database Message: I would like to suggest eliminating the database availability during current games. It has taken the fun out of the opening by making it possible for even the most inept players to follow the data base moves all the way to the middle game without much independent thought. Thus, many games go all the way into the middle game until one has to really begining thinking on his own. Not much fun any more, at least for me.
hubtom 5/20/2008 21:09:38 [ report abuse ]	database Message: an exelent idea PROSPERO
ganstaman 5/20/2008 22:00:23 [ report abuse ]	Message: So you're advocating not allowing the use of any printed materials during the course of a game? And if not, then tell me how you'd plan on drawing a line between what's acceptable and what isn't. Also, using a database is more of a skill than just playing what you see having been played. Especially as the game count narrows, you have to look at why the games turned out as they did or else you risk following the database into a bad position. When using a smaller database, this is even more of an issue. You have to be aware of what biases the database may have. So, someone using a database blindly doesn't get a good middlegame without being lucky.
prospero 5/20/2008 23:34:58 [ report abuse ]	database Message: No, I'm not advocating not allowing the use of any printed materials. I'm just saying, let's keep it like postal chess where everyone is on his own resources. As for using the given database, if you check it out, in most cases the most frequently made moves are very close to the book moves. Even though it does entail risk, the ones I've checked out seem more safe than risky. Using the database blindly isn't the point. It's using it with calculation by following the best moves, which can be followed all the way to previous games played. If you go far enough, you can see what the top rated players have played and then check back and see that they match very closely to the most popular moves made. Not very risky in my opinion.
prospero 5/20/2008 23:36:47 [ report abuse ]	DATABASE Message: hubtom, thanks for your input! I didn't think anyone else would agree.
heinzkat 5/21/2008 04:24:57 [ report abuse ]	prospero Message: I wholeheartedly disagree :-)
tim_b 5/21/2008 05:10:37 [ report abuse ]	Message: I'm tempted to agree with prospero too. I've started playing moves not because I thought they were the best, but to pull the game away from the database. Seems to me that the DB can shepherd otherwise poor players safely into the middle or even endgame. I suppose I just have to accept that databases are part and parcel of CC.
ganstaman 5/21/2008 08:19:47 [ report abuse ]	Message: I hope this doesn't come across as too rude, but here is exactly why I thought you'd have trouble coming up with 'the line in the sand' on this: "No, I'm not advocating not allowing the use of any printed materials." "As for using the given database, if you check it out, in most cases the most frequently made moves are very close to the book moves." So using an opening book is ok, but a database is not? The book will tell you which moves have been played (and even why, something a database is not capable of). In fact, an opening book is like a database, only it takes away many of the risks of blind database following -- it explains which moves are most current and which moves have been 'refuted,' etc. I don't get this part: "I'm just saying, let's keep it like postal chess where everyone is on his own resources." You have no problem with databases, it seems, since they are a part of postal chess. You only have a problem with a database provided by this site? We can all find many online databases at other sites. What difference does it make where it's coming from?
prospero 5/21/2008 10:54:50 [ report abuse ]	Current Use of Database Message: Yes, databases and books will continue to be used in both postal chess and CC, for there is no way to prevent them. I'm just saying, why provide one that corresponds to the exact game you are playing with all possible variations from previous GK play (which grows larger all the time)? Consulting an independent DB or Book does not yield the same info, as far as I'm concerned. I must go along with tim_b's comment above about the DB. I much preferred the situation on GK before the adoption of the current DB. The way it is now, someones better knowledge in the openings is nullified by the DB info as currently given.
ganstaman 5/21/2008 12:58:24 [ report abuse ]	Message: I don't get it. What do you think is so special about this database that makes it so much better (to the point of being unfair) than other ones? It includes past gk.com games, yes. But I can easily look through a database of correspondence chess games elsewhere. Chessgames.com is a database that grows larger all the time, and it's open to all. And 'corresponding to the exact game you are playing' -- ?? Isn't that what you do when you look in a database, no matter where the database is?
hubtom 5/21/2008 15:40:31 [ report abuse ]	database Message: still,I've found it a good idea from prospero.there are too much databases and books and pc-programs to lead players,even the poorest to good results.I recently start a tournament and asked the players to do it there selves,without help from bases ect. I think that we can all play better when learning from our mistakes. and what about the satisfaction when you know whit your hand on your heart that you've done it all alone...for that feeling I do it . I think prospero is someone who have the best intentions whit chess,I thank him for that!
barelyrunnin2 5/22/2008 08:30:25 [ report abuse ]	Current Use of Database Message: I have to agree with prospero. While the DB is intended as a good learning tool, I think the potential is great for its abuse. While GK and other venues can't guarantee against cheating, it could eliminate a convenient source of temptation by just posting for a limited time each game history, or only making available the first six or seven moves of various openings. After that, each player is then on their own.
prospero 5/22/2008 11:20:24 [ report abuse ]	database question Message: ganstaman, thanks for your feedback, for it has made me think more on this issue. You have made some good points. As to your question: "I don't get it. What do you think is so special about this database that makes it so much better (to the point of being unfair) than other ones?" The database as a stand alone feature is OK, but what I don't care for is the ability to click on the DB just below the current game you are playing and get the all the past moves that have been made in that specific position. It's too easy. Let someone go do their searching and looking up in whatever DB they want, but don't just hand them the moves without any effort. I would have much rather seen GK put all the expert work they put into the fine DB into expanding the opening book DB. I thank the rest of you for your input, also.
epimedes 6/07/2008 00:32:28 [ report abuse ]	Database useage Message: As a novice and having been a member for only a year, I initially found the database useful. Before I used it I was just getting beaten very early on, so it helped to get me into the game. Now, however, I kind of regret starting to use it. I think it has hindered my understanding of positions and has thus inhibited my progress. Now I only use it if I'm faced with an unusual opening, and then only to understand the opening. I use my own thinking - if I blunder, then it's my mistake and I try to learn from it. I figure in the long run I will be a better player for it.
heinzkat 6/29/2008 10:58:20 [ report abuse ]	It seems Message: The database was updated - now there are 886,534 games in the World Database (more than 100,000 extra games, i.e. now the Corus 2008 and Morelia-Linares 2008 games have been added) and 685,336 GameKnot games (not sure of the previous number).
ionadowman 6/30/2008 02:19:20 [ report abuse ]	Some interesting discussions here... Message: ... epimedes might have found one of the problems I have encountered when following book lines: what happens when you run out of book. Books aren't always clear about the thought behind the openings, and sharp lines often remain sharp when the book line ends. First, you do have to supplement your researches with some kind of study, even if it's just shifting pieces around to see what might turn up. Play through a number of games that follow the line you are playing, partly to see what kind of plans emerge for both sides, but also to see how the game is likely to shape overall. But if you find yourself getting involved with highly theoretical lines (Ruy Lopez, Sicilian, King;s Indian) you might consider one of two approaches. [1] Play relatively obscure or little played lines that look reasonably sound. Often there's little theory to explain the lack of popularity. I used to play the Four Pawns Attack on the White side of the King's Indian - a perfectly sound approach. I would recommend the symmetrical line. On the Black side of a French defence I would play 3...Nc6 against my opponent's 3.Nd2. Not often played, but quite OK. (Another idea is to play a French/Owen Defence 1.e4 e6 2.d4 b6, which, at the risk of a slightly cramped game is relatively non-committal. [2] Play "systems". These are openings with a pretty clear cut plan right from the start. Such is the English Opening, which was my opening for maybe 80% of my tournament games as White from 1971 through to 1986 when I last played OTB. You might like the Colle system - again with a clear cut idea. Its drawback is the DSB, but otherwise it's fun to play... Something to think about anyhow... [2]
heinzkat 7/09/2008 09:02:38 [ report abuse ]	Just noticed... Message: You can now use backspace and the arrow keys to scroll through the moves.
snowpoppy 7/11/2008 20:55:44 [ report abuse ]	New conditional moves version Mac OS 9 Message: I know everyone will say "Who cares?", but just for the record, when I'm in OS9 the old version of Conditional Moves did work; the new one doesn't.
snowpoppy 7/11/2008 21:24:14 [ report abuse ]	Further to the above OS 9 Message: In OS 9, when you click on the Conditional Moves link, nothing happens at all.
heinzkat 7/12/2008 00:42:25 [ report abuse ]	snowpoppy Message: You might need to check your pop-up allowance settings.
kreifi 7/15/2008 09:46:08 [ report abuse ]	Message: Yeah. I used the summer sale and now I can see my own database fully. This is most coolest feature in site (and of course it is nice to get play more than 12 games).
pixelhermit 7/25/2008 03:43:53 [ report abuse ]	DB or not DB... Message: Personally, I wouldn't use the GameKnot (or other) DB's for in-game analysis. Even though using databases is okay according to GameKnot rules (as stated in the FAQ as well as in the RoC) I find that the databases at GameKnot are a bit too limited and, frankly, sometimes somewhat erroneous. I do however occasionally use them in order to find new variations and twists to my own existing repertoire, but as I said, I never use them for specific (ongoing) games with specific opponents - only to get new ideas and/or for the pure amusement of playing through openings, good or bad... :-) Also, as the databases offered by GameKnot aren't commented, there's no real way of learning a totally new opening from them, at least not in a good way. Well, that's my view - others are of course free to have their own! :-) In my opinion, one would have to know at least the essence or major game plan of an opening first, and then you might learn a few things from the uncommented databases. In order to really come to understand a new opening simply from reading a database, many of the moves would have to be commented by experienced players. Using databases without comments, as the ones found here at GameKnot, would only be repeating moves from a library - and that will soon get quite boring. Like reading a book out loud, written in a language you don't know: you might pronounce the words correctly, but you still wouldn't know what they mean... However, the GameKnot databases add a decent amount of extra information when used together with other, more extensively commented databases, and as such they do add good value to the GameKnot experience. But in on-going games? Not for me. Even though the use of databases is perfectly fine for correspondence chess, I feel that it's more fair play to trust in my own brain only. And besides, I find that I learn more from the games I lose, than from the games I win... lol
heinzkat 7/25/2008 12:58:16 [ report abuse ]	Database bigger again Message: World Database: 962,186 chess games (+ 75,652) GameKnot Database: 707,033 chess games (+ 21,697)
heinzkat 11/05/2008 01:02:28 [ report abuse ]	Database updated Message: World Database: 1,673,750 chess games (+ 711,564) GameKnot Database: 748,018 chess games (+ 40,985) And that closes the thread.
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